Download MP3 Here.
5.8 MB, min.
on Yoichi Shimatsu and sample articles
[Introductory music. Rense begins at 52 seconds]
Jeff Rense: OK, and we are back. Glad you are
along tonight. Going over to Asia now and to talk to Yoichi
Shimatsu. With us again to bring us up to date. He is an extraordinary
man. I am sure you know his background by now. Welcome back,
Yoichi, how are you?
Yoichi Shimatsu: Hello there, Jeff. Doing fine.
Shimatsu: As good as can be said.
Rense: Indeed. Well, the panic is spreading
over here. It is not outrageous yet, but fortunately the levels
are way low. Nothing substantial yet. The latest we have over
here -- and I want you to bring me up to date -- reactors Two
and Three are clearly breached. A breach means that there is
a hole, a crack, or a fracture or some other kind of compromised
integrity to it which is allowing water and radioactivity to
leech out. But obviously Number Three is the problem. The MOX
fuel reactor. Tell us what you know my friend, and how bad is
Shimatsu: Well, OK, the MOX fuel reactor is
basically a fuel that is a mixture of uranium and plutonium
oxides. And this is a much more powerful reactor. Many much
more dangerous if there is leakage to the plutonium, which has
a very long half-life. It is basically these are the tiniest
of particles which if you breath into your lungs will generate
cancer over time. So this is very serious. It is only a mere
leaking out which is being detected. And the big scare is in
the containment chamber. There are two chambers in the core
reactor. There is a core reactor chamber, surrounded by a containment
chamber where excess steam and water basically boils over and
is captured. So that one is breached on this containment chamber
and leaking plutonium into the atmosphere. Reactor Two uses
the standard uranium reactor, and that apparently from reports
we are getting out of Japan is that the core reactor shell itself
is broken on the inside. This is a reactor which had a very
large internal explosion. So this explosion was severe enough
and powerful enough to crack the reactor core. So this basically
is the free-flowing uranium coming out of there. This accounts
for why the nuclear workers have to be evacuated more frequently
and for longer periods of time now, which is delaying any kind
Rense: How do we know the reactor core in Three
is not in fact breeched as well. No one has been able to get
in and look at these things.
Shimatsu: Right, well probably because the
plutonium levels are significant, but not, lets say, consistently
high. Like we are seeing out of the uranium coming out of Reactor
Two. So -- that -- we are lucky it is not deeper, but it is
still a very serious problem because plutonium is deadly even
in the tiniest amounts if you are exposed over a long period
of time. You get it in your lungs or your esophageal system
or your stomach or whatever, this will definitely cause cancer.
And so the situation is very, very serious. And because the
stuff is leaking into the atmosphere, and apparently reaching
the jet stream -- very serious. I don't know if you have heard,
but Iceland, the government of Iceland has detected radiation
in the North Atlantic.
Shimatsu: So basically whatever is streaming
out of these reactors in Japan is crossing the entire breadth
of the United States, so we are talking at least 30 or 36 states
that this stuff is flowing over.
Rense: It has also been found in Europe as
well, in China. It has circled the globe by now, even at lower
levels, I don't know that it may not need to get up to 35,000
feet. The air moves. I mean, it just moves --
Shimatsu: Right, right, right.
Rense: It waits for no man. This issue of plutonium,
TEPCO has admitted --and whatever they admitted God only knows
what is really happening -- admitted to plutonium being found
in five locations. In the soil, on the grounds of the facility.
Now that is an admission. Now if the bottom of the reactor is
trashed, let us say there has been a melt-down at the bottom,
it is just concrete and a million different pipes, apparently,
it is quite a maze. It will go down into the ground water at
some point and it will explode. It will not be a nuclear explosion
in the traditional sense, but it will explode. And it will pour
all kinds of things into the air again.
Shimatsu: Yes, it is very volatile.
Rense: That is right, that is right. And they
have taken two Japanese 30,000 pound main battle tanks there
apparently, or they are moving them, and the idea is those battle
tanks are going to be used as -- they have NBC air units on
them and thick steel --
Shimatsu: That is right, that is right --
Rense: To clear away the debris.
Shimatsu: This is basically going to be the
only future protection for nuclear workers monitoring the site,
they have got to be in heavy, heavy tanks, huh?
Rense: They are going to try to use the tanks
like big bulldozers to slowly -- slowly-- this could take many,
many months. Many months. TEPCO even said years --
Shimatsu: Uh hunh [Yes].
Rense: To pull this crap away from the reactors,
and then examine and see and study what they have to work with.
And somebody else also wrote that pouring concrete on them is
not smart. It just is not a smart fix. Now I do not know if
that is accurate or not, but some people are suggesting that
concrete is not the answer. They do not know what the
answer would be.
Shimatsu: The answer would be for the cementing
purpose, they are going to try to -- they have got to somehow
get some of the separation rods moved up to reduce the fission
process. And these undercarriages are badly damaged. And he
said that there is a maze of pipes and machines and motors below
have been flooded. They are now very radioactive. So it will
be very difficult to move these boron rods up to stop the fission
and cool the thing down so that they could be covered to some
extent. The problem is that I don't know if they can insert
boron pellets, boron-10
pellets, into the core reactor. If they could do that, that
would definitely help. And the current problem that the Japanese
are suggesting is that they want to pour sand into the reactors
so that the sand will fuse into a glassy trap for the escaping
particles, safely physically trapping particles of uranium,
of plutonium, from its baking. The problem is that wet sand
will not fuse, so they have got to come up with fragments, shards,
of glass pellets, because the glass at least will allow the
water to escape as steam before it begins fusing. So this is
really a very complicated process. And you are right about concrete.
Over time the internal heat will crack it, and it will become
part of a much larger problem later. So you need an amorphous
material. Something like silicon, at least layered. Sandwiched
in-between concrete and neutron-absorbing materials.
So this is a very, very complicated process that frankly the
nuclear industry has not even thought about since Chernobyl.
This is what is so shocking.
Rense: That is right.
Shimatsu: After Chernobyl, the nuclear industry
still does not have a game plan for a melt-down.
Shimatsu: This clearly is mind-boggling.
Rense: It is.
Shimatsu: It is incredibly irresponsible.
Rense: Forget the break, network, we are going
right through this -- . [8:16] The concrete issue to me makes
no sense. Concrete is wet. If you pour a wet substance in there,
not only will it not harden, it will explode.
Rense: I mean you are talking about incredible
amounts of heat, so pouring concrete in there will melt and
explode, and the situation will only get worse. Is that right?
Shimatsu: Yes, basically it contracts under
heat. Over time it will continue to crack. You have seen a lot
of major buildings, parking lots and all --
Shimatsu: Cracks will appear after several
years because the concrete never stops from cracking. It is
a chemical process over time. I mean a final concrete shell
would not be bad just as something like a paper weight to hold
down everything else. But they have got to come up with some
new materials. And the Chinese are in there right now in a big
way. You know they have had nuclear problems of their own that
we have never read about or known about, but they have a lot
of hands-on experience of suppressing these nuclear accidents.
They have a lot of neutron absorbers. They have a big truck
they sent to Japan that the Japanese emergency workers are now
on which pour the various materials on to the nuclear reactors.
It is like -- this is something like an 11 story tall pipe system
that will pump material on top of the reactor. So we are really
looking at the Chinese for help on this issue, because there
is no one else in the world who has any experience who knows
what to do.
Rense: They actually do not know.
Shimatsu: The Chinese will not step up to the
public and explain what they have got. I guess it is proprietary,
that is why they keep it a secret. They are going to have to
use it and apply it.
Rense: It is proprietary? Interesting.
Shimatsu: Well yes, I have talked to the people
at uranium mines and they say it is a secret. We developed it.
I said, "Why can't you commercialize it? The rest of the
world will like it." [They say] "We never thought
of that, you know, it sounds like a big hassle for us to do
Shimatsu: But this point they are going to
have to do something.
Rense: Very interesting.
Shimatsu: The move is on. They are sending
aid over to Japan now, and landing at Yokohama, and it is being
shipped to Chiba. So there is sort of a -- kind of a -- logistical
center in Chiba which will send -- begin -- the whole work of
entombment. So entombment, I think, is going along quietly.
And also, they are evacuating -- I think TEPCO and the government
are finally realizing the extent of the radiation danger, the
red zone there. And they are quietly beginning to remove the
villagers from there. They are not making a big scene, because
this would mean liability. Why didn't they do it earlier? So
they are doing it on the sly. This is, you know, there was a
brief moment when the governor was more forthright. You know
it only lasted a few days, and right now we are seeing a full
on cover up going on.
Rense: I read the releases from TEPCO and the
holes in the sentences are big enough to drive a truck through,
they are just --.
Shimatsu: That is right, that is right.
Rense: They don't tell you much of anything.
[In the background a couple of sentences of Shimatsu's comments
overlap Rense's discussion. It sounds to this transcriber like
some kind of recording or mixing error in creating the interview
sound track rather than Rense and Shimatsu trying to talk over
Shimatsu: I think they are -- not just TEPCO,
but General Electric, the other parts of the nuclear industry
in Fukushima -- they are running for cover now. They are running
Rense: The idea of being able to get to containment
or the actual core is very difficult. If you saw the overhead
folks, the video of the sight and the three trashed buildings,
to gain access is going to take a lot of work and a lot of removal
of countless tons of debris. Now in that debris, of course,
are what is left of the spent fuel pools, which in some cases
clearly have been obliterated. I don't see any other way. These
buildings are just shells of what they were. They're trashed.
The overhead cranes are gone. How they can withdraw active fuel
rods to reduce the fission, I don't even begin to understand.
It would have to be done with a crane of some kind, but they
have got to be able to have access to the containment and then
the reactor which they do not seem to have at this point, do
Shimatsu: No. They are basically -- they are
even having trouble keeping power up. To get really effective
power, to get the separation rods up, they have to connect to
the plant's own electrical system which is under water, you
know the turbine house is basically all shorted out. So this
is why TEPCO is saying they are talking about months, but basically
this is again, when you see the battle tanks in there for control,
we are talking about the possibility of a melt-down. We are
really looking at that. No one wants to talk about it. And the
logistics for entombment probably are still not all there yet.
They still do not have all the materials ready to go. So we
are really right now maybe facing the greatest danger, threat.
And if a couple of months from now we don't have a melt-down,
there would be time. We would buy time. But right now anything,
I think, could happen.
Rense: At any time.
Shamatsu: My cameraman, who I have worked with
for 20 years, he is up there now, at Fukushima --.
Rense: He went back?
Shimatsu: -- Yes, he went back up there , [name?
-- Tagasha Morizumi? unintelligible to transcriber] Strangely
his phone, his mobile phone was cut off. You would think that
the area would have mobile phone service for the emergency workers.
And you know I helped design the emergency plan for the area.
Every mobile phone base station there has backup batteries,
which charge very quickly. You don't have to provide power for
a few hours a day to keep the mobile phone system, but when
I call them up, I get an answer "This number does not exist,"
so this is really, you know, this is going beyond the cover
up, Morizumi [spelling] has always come and said that what is
happening at Fukushima is a crime against humanity. That is
what has happened.
Rense: They are blocking his line, obviously,
it sounds to me.
Shimatsu: Yes, yes. They are blocking the lines.
Probably even emergency workers to prevent any information from
Rense: He was exposed -- Yoichi-- he was exposed.
Is he OK? Did we stabilize him?
Shimatsu: This is his work. He has been to
Chernobyl, the [unintelligible] nuclear test site in the Soviet
[? unintelligible], ground zero in Nevada, the depleted uranium
[unintelligible] fills in Iraq, he has been to all these places.
This is the worst, and right now we are trying to figure out
some herbal treatment for these -- we just got this in a lab
program of chelation therapy and so on. You know, his life is
beyond that risk His life is now threatened. He will be back
in a couple of days, I hope. And he did send me an email out
that he is still alive, so that is good.
Rense:Well please extend to him from the honest
journalists, myself included, our best wishes and our appreciation
for his true heroics.
Shimatsu: Yes, we will do that, and we will
try to get some of his photos out to you when he gets back.
Rense: Yes, and I would love to have him on
the program with you at some point in time as well if we can.
Shimatsu: Yes, well, he does not speak much
English. That is a slight problem, so that is why I have to
do the translations.
Rense: I understand, I understand.
Shimatsu: Anyway, it is a terrible thing, but
you have got to take the risk. This is a time when the brave
few step forward, the nuclear workers, the real journalist up
there, the emergency workers, the paramedics, the people who
are really taking it on the chin for the rest of us.
Rense: Well, they had some nice pictures of
the lights on in the control room, but I looked at all the controls
and wondered what the hell still worked. And probably not a
Shimatsu: The controls are dead. The lights
are on, but the controls are dead. This is the problem. So we
have to look at the final -- the end game is to somehow entomb
these reactors and as you said, concrete has been proven a false
solution. It doesn't work, and I don't know if we -- I urge
the governor in the area there to push for something amorphous
like silicon or something that can withstand heat and still
continue to melt itself back together. It can heal itself if
there is a crack, glue itself back together. That is what is
needed. Again, there is no research that has been done on this
at all, even though I know back at Berkeley I was -- I talked
to physicists there, they were working with self-annealing,
amorphous silicon inside nuclear plants, only that is to strengthen
durability. There has been research on this stuff, it just has
never been applied.
Rense: I see, I see. There was, there is a
video I have, made by a man who lives in Tokyo, and a lot of
people have left. How severe is the situation in Tokyo right
now as far as you know?
Shimatsu: Well, I think the theory is that
again not only maybe we are seeing downward southern drift by
now, especially from the seawater, there is a seawater bloom
that is drifting off the East Coast and as that evaporates,
that is what is drifting over Tokyo.
Rense: I see.
Shimatsu: But also there is a fear that a second
or third nuclear plant is now in Ibaraki prefecture right outside
Tokyo, because the [unintelligible] is in Chiba the prefecture
next door. And so the drinking water problem is very serious.
The government ruled out so-called health experts, doctors,
from basically a government hospital. They reassured all the
mothers that the levels of Iodine 131 are completely safe for
infants. The mothers aren't buying it. They know that small
amounts, small doses over long periods of time build up in the
body and we are not concerned so much about immediate levels
in the air now, but the cumulative effect of children drinking
this water, you know, day after day, meal after meal. There
has been a rush to get the water. That is why many people are
leaving -- they have to go to where they think the water is
safe. It will build up in your organs, and it is especially
bad for mothers and children.
Rense: So the lies continue, there is no question.
Shimatsu: There is nothing but lies. I mean,
again, when you have, you know, supposedly reputable doctors
on television, very calm and telling people that it is safe
to drink the water when everyone knows -- they know very well
that it is not safe, because if you drink a lot of water over
a period of lets say a month, and so with that volume of material
taken in, you have a lot of radioactive iodine.
Rense: I have seen a few comments about other
plants, other reactors that are clearly having trouble, but
the press releases were phrased in such a way as to make it
seem inconsequential and minor. You are getting readings near
Chiba. What plant is up there, and what do you know about the
potential of a problem there?
Shimatsu: This is Tokaimura. This is Tokaimura,
Shimatsu: A plant with plutonium and uranium.
This plant has had trouble since the mid-90's, you know, and
the other thing is there has been a lot of irresponsibility
there. There is a core of nuclear scientists and engineers who
are very much behind a nuclear weapons program for Japan. They
have been running roughshod over the rules. They are playing
around a lot with radioactive materials, storing it in places
--in quite unsafe places -- to hide from inspectors, and so
on, so we are really not sure what is going on. There has been
a lot of subterfuge following the Tokyo subway gassing, my reporters
uncovered. There were many sympathizers with the Aum Shinrikyo
sect at Tokaimura, conducting all kinds of experiments for the
nuclear bomb, so, you just don't know what is going on in addition
to the TEPCO cover-up --
Rense: Excuse me, Yoichi, excuse me --
Shimatsu: We are also seeing a cover-up by
a secret network among the scientists themselves.
Rense: Are you suggesting, Yoichi, that there
may be a hidden nuclear program that is the ultimate secret
here that is now somehow jeopardizing the situation and making
it worse that no one is talking about.
Shimatsu: Yes, I think some of the storage
areas for the spent rods and all that might have been preliminary
for the separation of plutonium.
Rense: All right, OK.
Shimatsu: Both plants deal with plutonium.
So, these would be materials for a bomb. And as we see, the
conservatives in the Japanese government and the military are
pushing for a nuclear option, for a nuclear deterrent capability.
And the problem is they are doing it in secret. I mean it is
one thing if you change the Constitution to openly have proper
inspection and all, but doing it in secret, it is done very
ad hoc. You know, there are high risks being taken. You know
there has been a whole corps of nuclear scientists and engineers
involved in this. There are many people, again, who were in
the in the Aum Shinrikyo sect who were involved in the shipment
of weapons of mass destruction from the collapsing Soviet Union.
You know, items like nerve gas. Even ballistic missile technology.
So there is this die-hard core of people who believe that Japan
should be a world power like it once was. A major military power.
And they are supported by major politicians, people like the
governor of Tokyo, Ishihara Shintaro [Shintaro
Ishihari in Wikipedia]. Who is very much an advocate.
He is the man who wrote
The Japan That Can Say No. Very much an advocate.
I call him Mr. TEPCO.
Shimatsu: The former prime minister Shinzo
Abe whose grandfather helped create the Aum Shinrikyo (spelling
?) as an arms trading organization. These people are ultra nationalists
who are determined for a nuclear-armed Japan.
Rense: So --
Shimatsu: They are not playing by any sensible
rules. So this is I think an an ultimate problem, under the
secrecy of TEPCO also, they do not want any of this exposed
because that would bring them before the Hague for war crimes.
Rense: It would make sense that there is a
cover-up of a cover-up here. I wouldn't be surprised. Last question,
we have two minutes left. At this point I want to time your
best projection. How much should Americans be concerned about
fallout at this point in time? Thus far the measurements here
have been very safe, and nothing to worry about so far.
Shimatsu: Well, I think there is some concern
because measurements aren't being taken in all the states that
are being affected. And again we do not know if fallout does
occur, even in small amounts, it would be not a general blanket
of radioactive material. It is going to come down in certain
spots where there may be a downdraft or temperature variations.
Rense: And we don't know what the isotopes
Shimatsu: Again, it is Iodine, Cesium, and
we are also talking about particles of uranium and plutonium.
Rense: Potentially, yes --
Shimatsu: I think there has got to be a lot
more vigilance on the part of every state and major municipality
in the United States. The assumption is "oh, we'll check
the California coast, the West Coast." Well that is not,
you know, maybe the particles are riding very high over the
Pacific, but they will come down over the land mass in places
like the Rocky Mountains or the Appalachians where it is much
cooler in the mountains, and there are downdrafts there. So
I think there are not enough precautions, not enough reading
being down across the states.
Rense: Well, we are relying on citizens with
Geiger counters for the most part so far to get --
Shimatsu: It is very difficult to detect atmospheric
radiation that way with hand-held Geiger counters, very, very
Rense: Thank you Yoichi again, talk to you
next Monday. I appreciate everything you are doing. Thank you.
Shimatsu: Very good, thanks a lot.
Rense: Good night.
Shimatsu: Bye, bye.
Rense: Yoichi Shimatsu, again, exclusively
here, once a week an update from Hong Kong. He is the man who
knows what is going on. Think about it. A cover-up of a cover-up
of the Japan nuclear weapons program. They are trying, maybe,
to keep that a secret on top of many other things. I wouldn't
be surprised. Back tomorrow night. [24:52]