Dr. James Fetzer: This is Jim Fetzer, your host on the Real Deal. My very special guest for the first hour of this show today is an expert on covert ops, one of the best minds I know at unraveling what is going on in the world. We are going to talk about the catastrophe in Gulf of Mexico which seems to pose a huge threat, even to the existence of the human species on earth. His name is Jim Viken, and I am so pleased to have him back on the show. Jim, welcome to the Real Deal.
Dr. James Viken: Thank you Jim. I am glad to be back.
Dr. Fetzer: What I want to know today, Jim, is what is the real deal about the Gulf of Mexico, BP and this oil spill? Do you think this was a deliberate, or an accident, or is it stage-managed? Are we being manipulated? What in the hell is going on?
Dr. Viken: Well, because the mass media is controlled, and because of the five or six major news corporations at least three of them are linked to defense contractors, talking points are disseminated to news people, and they are really there to do concensus and read the talking points. They know that if they depart from the agenda, bad things happen. Now take Larry King, for example. I think the guy has tried. Some people don' t like him, but I have always liked him, and the thing is you never know where he stands because he has never evaluated anything. But he believes in letting people talk. When he had Jesse Ventura on, and Jesse talked about 9/11, and suggested it was an inside job, you could see Larry wince, but he didn't interrupt him. He didn't interfere. And immediately after that, within the next week or so, he was punished by the media for his divorce, ridiculed, had an hour long program ridiculing him, and I think to counter that he had Jesse come on and actually run his show. So I have got to give the guy credit. But most people in the media are frightened to tell the truth. For example, if you read the book Into the Buzzsaw, it talks about a number of top investigative journalists whose lives were particularly ruined or destroyed because they dared to write the truth. And there are many stories about this, but my main point would be that because the media spreads this party line that is coming from the government and the corporations that control it, such as BP, it isn't just BP, it is the banks behind them like Goldman Sachs with all their interchanging directors, that we cannot get a good view on what happened. Now I know that I recently had a call from a retired lady that I know down in Texas. She was upset because she had talked to someone who worked on the oil platform. They said that two to three weeks beforehand there was talk among the management on the platform of cracks appearing in the surface of the ocean-bed. I don't know, there was no talk whatsoever of anything oozing out of the water, but she said that this guy told her that there were cracks and he was very concerned and a lot of people on the rig knew that there was something wrong. There was an irregular thing being done with the drilling. That did not get into the news. What we have heard for anecdotal reports is that there have now been fissures recognized in the ocean floor and possibly oil leaking up to twenty miles away through the fissures. We know that there have been reports, fairly good reports, that there has been oil leaking through fissures up to two miles away. And that cracking is one of the things that can happen when you drill wells. You can get cracking in the substrata and that then if there is a casing problem the oil under pressure will come up in another location. Now that is what appears to be happening. But there is other reports of minor leaks from other platforms not too far away, so it is very hard to know what is going on. We do know another thing for sure, and that is that BP is now controlling the Coast Guard, telling them what to do. They are giving orders to the local police to arrest news people who take pictures where they are not supposed to be, in public areas. And it also that BP has been given complete police powers. So whatever it is that is going on, Jim, we are not going to have an easy time finding out.
Dr. Fetzer: This idea that BP is running the police officials down there is stunning to me, Jim. I mean, it certainly suggests we are living in a fascist corporate-dominated state, and Barack Obama seems to me to be a spineless weakling here. I have not seen him take any steps that are significant in controlling this problem.
Dr. Viken: No, and you really wonder what and who has the authority, at what level, to tell the Coast Guard, you are going to take orders from BP's security. And when they tell you to arrest people, or move them out of an area, you are going to do it. Who had that authority? That had to come from a pretty high level.
Dr. Fetzer: That is just stunning.
Dr. Viken: Jim, it is like there has been a destruction of the rule of law in this country. You know one of the things that happened in Germany was there was a point where Germany had all kinds of laws protecting people, in fact Hitler sold himself as a true socialist, social security for everybody, and jobs, much like a Democratic platform, and once he had the power base, after the burning of the Reichstag, and after he murdered all the people who got him into power, purged them out just like Stalin, when the treachery was completed, now all at once he had so much power that all the people's rights were put on the shelf, and anybody that protested against him in any way was accused of being unpatriotic or not loyal to Germany. Now it kind of seems to me that the same thing is happening now.
Dr. Fetzer: Well, you know, something that stuns me Jim is that the seriousness of this isn't being acknowledged on any hand. It has got not only the potential to turn the Gulf of Mexico into a Dead Sea, by destroying all forms of life there, but to move throughout the oceans of the world and commit similar havoc. And of course all life is dependent upon organisms that come from the ocean, so if the oceans are destroyed, then all other forms of life are destined to extinction and that includes us truly.
Dr. Viken: Well, that is true, and that is why it is so important that we know what is really going on. And it may be that the government itself did not know what is really going on. Maybe even BP does not really know what is going on. Maybe this thing was set up as a deep cover black op so that nobody has a full picture except the very people at the top. Now there are some very, very strange occurrences. You know, they have been anecdotally documented. For example, all the talk that there were problems with the way the well was coming in. The fact that Halliburton or KBR were down there doing irregular things like packing the well casing with water, sea water, instead of proper mud there, concrete. It was not being done properly. The fact that a faulty relief valve, safety valve was installed, even though there was a fight, a verbal argument on the oil rig, hours before. Some people were saying, this thing is dangerous. This is not right. This valve won't work. So you have prior knowledge of problems and a rush to proceed anyway and you have a strange ship appearing the day before. And you have to ask what is that ship doing there. Then you have the other occurrences, now some of them have appeared in print in the mainstream media, such as the CEO of BP selling a large chunk of his stock ahead of time. Then you have the Chairman of Goldman Sachs who used to be the Chairman of BP, I guess a year before. You have Goldman Sachs involved, you have Goldman Sachs shorting the stock, or whatever, and I guess a recovered email saying that if the oil well does not produce as we expect, we are going to make billions. So far they have made 95 billion dollars profit because this well does not come in properly. So you know that there is all this background, and then you have to wonder about it. Of course the fact that Halliburton apparently a couple of weeks before bought "Coots" [Editor's Note: "Boots & Coots"] or whatever that company in Texas where they have a long history of fighting well problems, they can put out well fires. They are in Iraq, they are apparently the top disaster experts for oil. So now what happens is you have a proven conflict of interest with Halliburton because of their purchase of that company ahead of time, so they are making extreme profits off this disaster because of that purchase. And one of the sharpest investments a person could ever make, and of course it really makes you wonder whether there was prior knowledge, why would they spend millions of dollars buying this company unless they knew something big was going to happen?
Dr. Fetzer: Well, it is very scary Jim. I have read estimates that this is unstoppable, and that as much as a billion barrels of oil may eventually come out of this massive reservoir which is supposed to be the second largest in the world, which obviously implies that we have a super abundance of oil, and also contradicts the theory of oil as a fossil fuel.
Dr. Viken: That is right.
Dr. Fetzer: So we seem to be in a situation where the world's greatest calamity, the greatest environmental disaster which is going to overshadow all others by many orders of magnitude is upon us, and nothing is taking place except the positioning of police forces and the military along the coast to keep reporters from reporting what is actually going on? Jim, that seems to be what's the deal. [10:27]
Dr. Viken: Well, Jim, there is another confusing thing too. You have to ask yourself about all the U.N. trucks. Over 800 U.N. Trucks over the last year and a half were brought in. I don't remember the state, one of the Southern states. At an airfield. I think I sent out a photo of that. And what are they getting ready for? And there is a very, very muted response to this. You talk to people who live down in the coastal area, and I have, and one of the things that you find is there is extreme anger down there in the families, but they are afraid to say too much because a lot of the other family members work on the oil rigs. So you have some of the families in the fishing business, and some of the brothers and sisters also work on the oil rigs. And the oil people, many of them, if not all of them, are made to sign statements that they will not talk agreements right after the disaster. They know that if they open their mouth, they are all done. They will never work for any oil company, not just BP. They will be blacklisted. So there is a conspiracy to keep people quiet. But one of the things that is leaking out is that the local people down there are very angry because they see all the equipment sitting on the shore, booms and such. There are hundreds of ships that have volunteered to help go out with booms. They have been told no, we don't want your help. The Governors of those Gulf States are furious, some of them have tried going out on their own doing maintenance, but they have been stopped by the Coast Guard. They are taking berms out and some of them are excavating and changing coral patterns and the government has stopped everything. It is almost as if the government's main goal right now is to stop the clean up, slow it down, and create a situation where as much damage as possible is being done.
Fetzer: As much damage as possible is being done, Jim. How corrupt is that? How bad is that? I mean, you know extinguishing a species is in the offing here. I mean this is not merely theoretical. If this oil keeps gushing out in this volume, it has the capacity to decimate all living forms in all the oceans of the world. .
Dr. Viken: That is right. Now you know that the latest estimate is two million gallons a day. Now there are 44 gallons in a barrel. So if you have a calculator there, you can take two million divided by 44, that would tell how many barrels a day are leaking. That is the latest estimate.
Dr. Fetzer: My understanding too Jim is that the whole thing is shattered and fragmented and now oil is leaking all over this very fragile bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.
Dr. Viken: That is right.
Dr. Fetzer: And it is unstoppable.
Dr. Viken: Supposedly the pressure that came in was estimated to be over 70,000 psi. Now that is a lot of pressure. And many of the people, that are familiar with -- engineers and whatever, have said it is most likely the well casing itself is being damaged now if it is not completely eroded, because the sand and silt itself coming out from below is like an abrasive, like sand-blasting the wall off.
Dr. Fetzer: Right, right, right. Which of course is going to open, increase the opening.
Dr. Viken: Right.
Dr. Fetzer: -- And widen it even further and allow larger volume to come gushing out.
Dr. Viken: And then of course there are a number of people I would call them -- there are some individuals that are well aware of government weather control technology going back to the 50's when they started it. And it has been admitted in some of the declassified government documents that they do have ways to control the weather. Cloud-seeding, electronic means. They have ways to control earthquakes. Years ago they did cross-drilling and they put nuclear-tipped torpedoes down. There are ways to control the weather using HAARP and various technologies, and there are some individuals that think that it is possible that our government used some of this technology to create a problem. In other words, there isn't just a bad well. There are other bad things which are being done to create fissures down there. You see when there is so much government secrecy, and there is so much money and abuse of power, by the people in control, we have no way to know what they are doing or how crazy they are. Now we do know one thing, Jim. They are not managing this properly. We know another thing. They probably don't care two hoots about the people down there because if they did, they would manage it better. So you have to ask yourself, what does the government have to gain by handling this? And the answer is, a lot. And the reason is you have to look at what happened with -- the government lied, the global warming tax, carbon tax, all these various things -- and of course with the leak of the emails, showing that global warming exists --but that through the natural cycles man-made global warming is less than one percent of it, and it is insignificant -- when those emails were released showing that the data that was used for formulating U.S. policy was fake, that whole movement crumbled. And my view is that this is the shadow government's answer to that. To find if that is the way you want to play now, we are going to play hardball. And a number of people such as myself view this as another 9/11. Now we know now that this first World Trade Center bombing, we know that was a false flag attack that was a sting gone bad, whereas the --.
Dr. Fetzer: You are talking about 1993.
Viken: Right. The FBI insisted that the Muslim extremists used real explosives, they didn't want to. But then a major accident happened. It was supposed to be called a [terror event]. We now know for sure, according to released government documents, eyewitnesses, and people in the various government agencies that are talking now and admitting that Murrah was an inside job done by our own intelligence agencies. We know that it was a sting gone bad. Except these people were set up to it. They had other bombs on the inside the building, came in xerox boxes, sat next to the columns. We know the bomb squad was there. We know that was another inside job created as a sting gone bad. And we also know that the 9/11 attacks were set up, you know, in that same perspective where you have anywhere estimates of 11 to 17 military exercises that day. Vigilant Guardian and all the rest. When the planes started going off the radar, you had the FAA tapes saying "It that part of the exercise, or is that real?" So we know that all the air defenses shut down. We had the most heavily fortified cities in the world, New York and Washington, D.C., both of them protected with ground to air missiles controlled by radar and satellite, and F-16s that are required to intercept within six minutes. We know all of that was turned off and shut down. And of course a guy in a cave in Afghanistan with a cell phone would have to be awfully powerful to do that.
Dr. Fetzer: [Laughter] [17:50]
Dr. Viken: So the people are starting to catch on. So what happens, I think, is the government figures we have got to do something. People are catching on. We have to have another 9/11, but these people are very crafty. Now I never would have expected that they would have pulled anything like this with the Gulf thing. It caught me off guard. It slipped under my radar screen.
Dr. Fetzer: Well Jim, did this just get out of control? I mean you know what benefit can come come from creating an evolutionary scenario that leads to the extinction of the human species? I mean I realize these people are not rocket scientists and they may have limited understanding of ecology and evolution, but the risk represented by this disaster Jim far overshadows anything that the world has ever seen.
Dr. Viken: Unless that is what they want. Now my advisor in graduate school used to tell me that the people running things --the international bankers-- are all eugenicists. And he said not only that, they are all nuts. They want to kill us all. And I used to laugh and I never believed it. It took me years and years to learn about this stuff. I think he was right. If you go look at the Georgia Guidestones down where where they have the new Ten Commandments for the world, the first one is to reduce the world population by 80%. If you talk to or look at the British aristocrats and the philosophers in Great Britain, at the same time, the Club of Rome, all the population control, they want to reduce the population at a minimum, 80%. Some of them say 90%. So when you have that kind of thinking with the most powerful people that run the world, you have to believe maybe these people are serious, and maybe they really want to take us back to the Stone Age. Because if the reports are accurate, that we are losing two millions gallons out of that well into the Gulf a day, if that is accurate, Jim, this could take the United States back into the Stone Age.
Dr. Fetzer: I think that is right, Jim. I think it has the potential because of the currents. This oil is going to be swept around the world. Around the oceans of the world. I think it has the potential to take the entire earth back to the Stone Age.
Dr. Viken: That is possible. Now some of the petroleum engineers have said, "Well, left to itself, the longest it could possibly run would be two to four years. That each deposit has its own limits. But we really don't know that.
Dr. Fetzer: But then we get the reports Jim that two kinds of supplemental catastrophe. One, there is a report of an enormous gas bubble that is some ten by twenty miles in width. That if it were to explode, would cause enormous waves. You know, a real bona fide tsunami.
Dr. Viken: Right. There are some people who are saying there is a real gas bubble held down underwater.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes.
Dr. Viken: What would hold that down? Because usually you know like when you have divers or diving, the gases that they exhale, unless you have rebreathers, blow up to the surface. But what would keep it [down]? Is it subterranean gas or -- ?
Dr. Fetzer: I cannot imagine. But the other report is that as this oil comes out, it is leaving a weakening there of the shelf, which could collapse, and water pour into what I take to be extremely high temperatures at that subterranean level, which could cause another kind of eruption.
Dr. Viken: It could be from a volcano.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes.
Dr. Viken: I think there are other places in the world where there are subterranean volcanoes periodically.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes, yes, yes. There are.
Dr. Viken: But they are not related to oil.
Dr. Fetzer: Well I don't think they are on this scale, this magnitude and in such a sensitive area in terms of civilized life.
Dr. Viken: You really have to wonder, sometimes you wonder, where is Obama in all this because his first order out of the White House was to send SWAT teams to all the oil rigs. So I wonder if his advisors led him to believe it was a terrorist attack. That is the way he responded.
Dr. Fetzer: He sent SWAT teams to oil rigs?
Dr. Viken: Right.
Dr. Fetzer: That is bizarre, Jim.
Dr. Viken: That was his first response.
Dr. Fetzer: That is bizarre, Jim, I was unaware of that, but that is bizarre. Now who is --
Dr. Viken: You have to wonder how much power he really has. What has he really been told? With many of our presidents, they have been given limited amounts of information. They are controlled by the information given to them by their advisors. [22:21]
Dr. Fetzer: Yep, yep, yes. Well, I just can't fathom who benefits from this. I mean, I understand that BP was cutting all kinds of corners. There was no supervision. This is a manifestation of the deregulation mantra of the Republicans over the last thirty years.
Dr. Viken: That is true.
Dr. Fetzer: We should hold no one more responsible politically than the GOP. And of course you have heard these disgusting remarks from politicians suggesting that even this rather trivial twenty billion dollar compensation fund from BP is a form of shakedown which is completely ridiculous. I mean there is a potential here for BP to declare bankruptcy, reorganize, and not pay a nickel towards cleanup, Jim.
Dr. Viken: The minimum it will cost is a trillion dollars, and probably three to five.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes.
Dr. Viken: Probably a third of our GDP. But there is another angle on the BP situation that you have to ask yourself about. You know BP has a long history of pushing for environmentalism and Green stuff. Now one of the things that shocked me the most years ago, I used to live next door to a guy, I won't mention the organization, but it was a conservative, like a nature organization that lobbied and whatever, and they brought people to Minnesota and were surveying the farms, taking pictures of the farms and stuff. One of the surveyors was asked "Why are you here," and he said "We are surveying all the farms. We will probably buy them all up in the future." This is like 12 to 15 years ago. I thought that was nuts. Now I am starting to wonder if they have a long term plan. And I found out that this particular foundation was being funded by the oil companies. And I thought, what the heck, why would the oil companies fund? These foundations are against drilling any oil. They are against any kind of development of resources or minerals or anything. They fight everything. Why would they support their enemy? And BP has a long history of this, pushing for carbon credits, all of this stuff. Suicidal stuff. Self-defeating stuff. So you have to ask yourself how you would explain this. You can go back and read a lot of the literature that some of the kooky British eugenicists wrote at the turn of the century, what they talked about was putting key people in organizations and we will give them a golden parachute and you work for us, and we will make sure you are taken care of when we put in our New World Order. But at the right time you have to jettison the company. You have to sacrifice the company, take it down in order for a higher goal, for the good of mankind, for preserving the species. And that we will make sure you are part of our new little club. Have you heard that one before?
Dr. Fetzer: Jim, this is all very scary stuff. We are going to take our first break, Jim, then we will return to our conversation about the BP disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. This is Jim Fetzer, your host on the Real Deal with my very special guest, Jim Viken. We will be right back. [25:31 beginning of break...31:25 end of break]
Dr. Fetzer: This is Jim Fetzer, your host on the Real Deal. Continuing my conversation with Jim Viken about the BP Disaster in the Gulf of Mexico which poses risks heretofore un-confronted by the human species, because once one level in the food chain is extinguished, all higher species have their survival threatened. It is virtually inevitable, Jim, it is what you might call a law of evolution. So I view this with the most grave concern. Can you tell me this. Offer this insight, Jim. Who could stand to make money off of a disaster like this?
Dr. Viken: Well Jim, this goes back into the question, who benefits from a problem this great? You have to ask yourself who really is in control? I think the answer to all these questions is the shadow government. And Richard Boylan, Phd, did the best analysis of it. It is on his web site if you dig for it. You can surf on Google shadow government, Richard Boylan. I think what happened is that the shadow government has always existed, but it uses war to gain more power. A lot of the companies that were small because of the war profiteering that went on during World War I and World War II became way too powerful, and it was such a drastic increase in power that President Eisenhower, who was really one of them initially, he could not stomach it any more. In his last speech in the White House he talked about the military-industrial complex and the threat that it posed. Undue influence over our society. I think that what has happened is it has gotten so powerful it has become a secretive or hidden bureaucracy that is superior, it is at a higher level than our own government. Our government works for these people and takes orders from them. And if you really look at the shadow government, you find out that the banking, the oil, the military, the defense contractors, these people are at a medium level. They are above the government, they control the government. But these people are not independent. They are controlled by, I call them "gurus." You have the old Black nobility, the various people on the Committee of 300, you have people involved in esoteric, secret societies. And these people are really kinked out. If you really research it, you find out they are not like us. They have their own set of beliefs. Most of them are nuts. And they believe in eugenics. They want to herd us. They believe that in order to preserve the human race, you have to thin the herd. They are agents of death. So they view war as an act of God. And because of that, they think that they are helping humankind when they create mass war and create mass death. And this is their history. And they believe that people are reincarnated so that they are really helping to move people to a higher level. And that suffering is good. Of course it is always for everyone else, not for themselves. Eugenics is great as long as you are not the one doing it to yourself. And I think this is the only explanation. These people are crazy enough and they are kinked out enough, so that they are weird and occult enough spiritually, they really think they are acting out on behalf of God and saving the world and saving the human race. Now how is that for crazy, Jim?
Dr. Fetzer: You are telling me that the lunatics are running the asylum.
Dr. Viken: Yes, yes. But most lunatics in mental institutions, most of them are harmless. You know they run around, and maybe spin their wheels all day. They really don't harm anybody. They might wind up on the streets, getting run over by a street car or a train or something or a bus. Most of them are harmless. But these people are criminally insane. There is a difference. These people are beyond sociopaths. They live by bloodlust. To them, death is great. You know, like look at Henry Kissinger. There are warrants out for his arrest for mass murder in some of your countries where he will not visit anymore. What is it, Myanmar where they say he was responsible for a million deaths. Look at Pol Pot, you have to ask who put Pol Pot in power? -- Our intelligence agencies. I mean, these people are the mass murderers. And now we have a government in which through different administrations has continued to support unprovoked wars resulting in the deaths of over a million civilians, Jim.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes, yes, yes. And the beat goes on. I mean over two million Vietnamese died in that conflict. And of course, I mean Iraq and Afghanistan, they did not even keep count in that first Gulf War, Jim. I mean it was such a slaughter, it was so brutal, that Highway of Death. [36:25]
Dr. Viken: Life magazine had a photographic journal of that event. But I talked to someone whose son flew a Warthog in that attack, and he said that they were all angry because they blamed some of the best of their soldiers, some of their friends in the Kuwaitean Army, you know they blamed the Iraqis for it. But he said when they came down and opened up their guns, body parts were flying for miles. They just chewed them up. I don't know how many they killed in one pass, that many thousands of troops, and again, all unprovoked. We set Sadam Hussein up. We sold them the poison gases. We sold them everything. We made them into a boogeyman so that he would fight Iran, and then when we were done with him, he would not follow orders, and then of course we sent the Jackals in, and when that didn't work, then we sent the Army in. Now I had one very trusted friend who I contacted, and I asked him. I said all right, I want to know who really runs things. Who are these creeps who really runs things. He said "Have you ever been to Washington, D.C. and seen the capitol building?" I said no. And he said if you do, there is a statue on top of the capitol building. I said, "OK, I have seen it in pictures." I said "What is it?" and he said, "Persephone, the goddess of the underworld. Goddess of minerals, it goes back to Greek and Roman times." He said "The people that run the minerals on the earth, oil companies and the gold and everyone, those are the people who rule the world and always have." He said "It goes all the way back to Babylonia. They have always maintained control. If you want to understand who runs everything, look at those companies and those families." Have you ever heard that before Jim?
Dr. Fetzer: No, that is very scary, Jim.
Dr. Viken: And they had enough power to get Persephone put up on the Capitol Building and have her rebuilt for [unintelligible] thousand dollars.
Dr. Fetzer: That is completely bizarre. Completely bizarre.
Dr. Viken: Check it out. I couldn't believe it. I checked it out and it is all true. Not only that, but they just recently had her rebuilt. It cost a lot of money, too.
Dr. Fetzer: I have heard multiple stories about strange things happening shortly before this blowout occurred. That Halliburton was down there. That there were the federal inspectors who had been doing a terrible, terrible job, anyway.
Dr. Viken: Right.
Dr. Fetzer: I mean, what in the world was setting this up, Jim? Let's just be --.
Dr. Viken: At one level, it was criminal negligence, and at another level it was ordinary negligence for the workers who did not know anything and had no authority, but for the workers in higher positions, it was criminal negligence. And at the highest levels it was complete criminal negligence and murder. There were eleven people who died there, and it was murder. Because people at the top making decisions said, "Let it go." They were told there was a problem with the valves, it is warped, and they said "Let it go." They were told that the mud was not being put in properly, and they were told, "Let it go. We cannot spend any more money on this."
Dr. Fetzer: Yes. "Let it go."
Dr. Viken: That is criminal negligence at a minimum, isn't it Jim?
Dr. Fetzer: Absolutely. And of course they were trying to do it all on the cheap. And the fact is there were these cutoff valves that could easily have been installed that other nations require be installed when they allow any drilling to take place that were not installed here.
Dr. Viken: So who is running who? Is the government running the oil companies, or is it the other way around? I would say the shadow government which is largely composed of oil companies is really running our government and most of the governments of the world. And when you look at the amount of revenue that is running through these oil companies, it is unbelievable.
Dr. Fetzer: Well you remember when Bush and Cheney were in office they made all these political appointees, many of whom appeared to have had close ties to the oil industry, and then they elevated social security ranks so that these people will have turned out to have lifetime tenure. I mean, what a diabolical scheme.
Dr. Viken: That is right. That is right. Jim, you know this thing went under my radar. I knew the government had to do another 9/11 type thing this summer, but I thought they would attack a city or take out a city or another major attack. And of course you know you heard about the Muslims on that one Army base who were training, seventeen of them went AWOL and are missing now, and they are worried about that. But I thought it would be something like that. Some Muslim sting gone bad, or something like that. I never thought that these people were this nuts to set up this sort of catastrophe. Did you see it coming at all?
Dr. Fetzer: Not at all. No, not at all, Jim.
Dr. Viken: And it is pretty slick, really. These people are very craft, aren't they?
Dr. Fetzer: Well, my concern is that they are stupid, that they aren't far-sighted, that they aren't anticipating the potential consequences for the entire earth. I mean we live in a precarious situation. I mean, life only occurred on earth because of an unusual combination of circumstances and this is throwing the ecological balance off in such a serious way that I doubt very much that most forms of life are going to be able to continue to sustain.
Dr. Viken: But they think they can gene splice your artificial protein and create their own purified water and stuff for only a small percentage of the population of the super elite, so it does not necessarily go against their plan. But if you ask the question "Cui Bono?" or who benefits from this, you have to conclude that every major international crisis always helps the countries involved. Now this is the greatest boon to power in Washington, D.C. that we have ever had. This is bigger than 9/11. Because the more trouble we have down there, let us just say we have a hurricane, and you know there are reports that they come in out of contaminated rain in some off the coastal areas. There are some plants that are spotted. This just came in today.
Dr. Fetzer: I am not surprised, because they were using this extremely toxic dispersant that was actually suppressing the oil to keep it away from the surface, but the waters of the Caribbean are so warm that it was evaporating into the clouds and now falling as rain on the Eastern Seaboard.
Dr. Viken: That's right. I guess oil itself, and with crude oil itself, you don't need this additive Corexit. You don't even need that. The oil itself is bad enough with all the contaminants.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes.
Dr. Viken: Apparently they are starting to get this on the analysis. Let us say we have hurricane and some medium weather catastrophes down there. That will only increase the damage. Now let us just say that people are starting to have breathing problems. Some initial reports of increased problems from allergic reactions and difficulty breathing, and whatever, if these reports turn out to be true, if there are problems, are they going to have to move people out of the coastal areas? Are they going to have to evacuate them?
Dr. Fetzer: Yes, yes, yes.
Dr. Viken: Is this another Katrina thing?
Dr. Fetzer: You know, most populations around the world are located on the coastlines of the countries involved, and that if you have to have a mass evacuation you are talking about millions upon millions of people moving to the north, Jim.
Dr. Viken: That's right.
Dr. Fetzer: You are talking about catastrophic conditions where there is going to be a struggle for survival. I mean it boggles the mind to contemplate what could occur here.
Dr. Viken: That is right. In other words, I think there were a hundred other countries that offered ships and booms and everything and suction tankers and everything to help. They were all refused. And then the shippers that came back, the government officials said, "They wanted to charge us." But I never heard whether that was verified or not. But our government refused to allow these other entities to help.
Dr. Fetzer: But as a cost-benefit analysis, using them and allowing them to charge is overwhelmingly less expensive than allowing this catastrophe to develop.
Dr. Viken: Of course. We beat everything that they do out there, what is the difference? I say get as many entities in there working to solve this crises, because it hurts -- the reason these countries sent these ships was not just to be nice guys, because they are afraid they will be harmed by it.
Dr. Fetzer: Very, very, very scary stuff stuff, Jim. Very scary stuff.
Dr. Viken: And you have to ask yourself, why is there no honesty? Why is there no honest discussion of any of these realities in the media? Well, it is because the shadow government controls the media. You know the only free media that we have are shows like yours or the Internet. And of course now the government at the highest levels -- they are spooked by the Internet. They realize they really screwed up when they funded DARPA, to set up the Internet. The Internet is out of control and 95% of the government's problems are now coming from the Internet and the education people are getting on the Internet. They are not watching TV very much at all. The news shows are failing in their viewership. Local newspapers are failing. People are tired of all the lies. Once you wake up, once you know that 9/11 was an inside job, hardly any government lie works anymore. And so that is why there has been a complete taboo. People at every level of the news have been told "Don't you ever dare talk about 9/11 where it could possibly be an inside job." That is the kiss of death for a career.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes, it is stunning. It is like all the members of Congress took an oath to never discuss it. I mean you know --
Dr. Viken: That is right.
Dr. Fetzer: How ridiculous is that? I thought that truth and justice were part of the American way? Now it turns out to be lies and abuse is the theme of the United States.
Dr. Viken: Well sure, and they passed a law in Congress a couple of years ago that if you annoy a Congressman you can be arrested, so now they are starting to enforce it. If you write a letter to your Congressman saying "I am mad at you because I don't like the way you are acting out, you know, resign, and all this and that," they will come and arrest you for annoying a Congressman.
Dr. Fetzer: You are kidding me!
Dr. Viken: No, they have been doing it.
Dr. Fetzer: If you can't criticize your government, what does it mean to be an American?
Dr. Viken: Well, they don't consider us as citizens. They consider us as serfs.
Dr. Fetzer: Serfs.
Dr. Viken: It is the people.
Dr. Fetzer. Serfs!
Dr. Viken: And it is like Bush said, "The Constitution is just a G-D piece of paper."
Dr. Fetzer: [sarcastically] That's right, just a goddamn piece of paper.
Dr. Viken: Did anything change under Obama? He promised to be out of Iraq in 30 days. It was on video. He promised all these things, open government. He put stuff up on the Internet two weeks in advance. All lies. He has not done one thing, Jim, that he promised. He is a liar.
Dr. Fetzer: He has not rescinded the Patriot Act. The Supreme Court just upheld this terrible provision of the Military Commissions Act. He has not closed Guantanamo. He has not brought the troops home from Iraq. He sent more to Afghanistan. He has given the absurd justification it was because we were attacked on 9/11 from that region, which means the guy is a complete dolt and does not understand anything about 9/11.
Dr. Viken: Well Jim, no one is holding his feet to the fire. The media is not holding him accountable. Nobody is holding him accountable. The people are all going to their soccer games, their football games, their baseball games and turning on the TV and inoculating their brains with mind control. It is bizarre. It is the most bizarre thing. And then of course they have got the cell phone towers cranking out the pulse microwaves to tranquilize everybody. Everybody is losing everything, but it is all kind of OK, "I will just go along." It is amazing, just absolutely amazing. Did you ever think people would be so narcotized by TV and the media to the point that they don't even try to protect their families anymore?
Dr. Fetzer: Sheeple, sheeple, sheeple.
Dr. Viken: Yes. You have got to remember you have Bernays and all these people, Jim, since the early part of the century they have been working on developing a mind control method to PSYOP the people. Now you know yourself that in academia, when you create a field of studies, and you get the best minds working on it, you can investigate things and you can really get control of the situation. And you know how science works. And we have all these top scientists working for the government coming up with the best ways to control people. The media is professionally controlled. They have think tanks that are working 40 hours a week just thinking how to present sound bytes and various things to control people. They use pupilometry, meters on people's pupils. They measure reactions. Nothing goes out over the air that is not completely engineered. Now when you have this level of sophistication, the average joker on the street doesn't have a chance, Jim.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes. Doesn't have a chance. Yes.
Dr. Viken: And that is what we are up against. You have to ask yourself, the real question to me, I would like to ask, is why would someone such as yourself step outside of the box. I would like to know how come you have always been able to sniff this stuff out. You never bought the government crap. Ever since I have known you, you have always caught on, you have always smelled a rat with this stuff. Why were you able to do that? Is it something about your upbringing. What is it? Are you just a truth junkie, what is it?
Dr. Fetzer: God, I wish I could tell you. Jim, it is just I like to --
Dr. Viken: You won't buy any of it, you never have. It goes all the way back.
Dr. Fetzer: I look for alternative explanations at what is going on, and of course, you know, the distrust of the government comes fairly early on if you are paying attention.
Dr. Viken: Is it your orientation, the truth, or is it your philosophy? Have you always tuned into how the media is manipulated? You know the logic used by the major mass media, it violates almost every rule of logic.
Dr. Fetzer: Well, you are right about that. I mean I spent 35 years teaching logic, critical thinking, and scientific reasoning to college students, Jim. You know, that was my greatest contribution. I told them that if they come to a university to take only one course, this was the course they should take.
Dr. Viken: What would happen if people really understood logic? Would they not be able to listen to this crap on TV news?
Dr. Fetzer: Well they would see through it all relatively effortlessly. It is astounding to me Jim how many seemingly sophisticated people are still taken in by the lies and deceptions of 9/11.
Dr. Viken: It is basic violations of the rules of logic, Jim.
Dr. Fetzer: Well, there are some pretty elementary principles going on here, but it also helps, Jim, to have some background in science. If you understand the nature of scientific reasoning it is far less easy to be taken in.
Dr. Viken: That is right. You have never bought it. I have never bought it. I think that the reason was that I was surrounded by people at an early age, some of them were in the upper crust, and they would make snide comments -- [a period of silence].
Dr. Fetzer: Jim, are you there? Jim, are you there. I think we have lost our guest. I hope he will be back. Jim Viken, talking about what is going on, let us see if we can get him back. I must say, this is -- Jim, are you there? The BP disaster is unbelievable. Anyone should go to my Face book page for example and they will find some of the latest articles about what is happening in relation to BP. [51:41 start of music....end of music 53:00]
Dr. Fetzer: Returning to the air with my special guest today, Jim Viken. These things seem to me to not be completely accidental, my friend.
Dr. Viken: Maybe.
Dr. Fetzer: Well, here we are, Jim, you were saying how important it is for people to be able to see through what the government tells them. And that critical thinking, for example, is a helpful background. Am I right?
Dr. Viken: Yes, Jim, I think the key is, I know that reading your books on the Kennedy assassination, the three books that you wrote, the first time anything was laid out from a strictly science of logic perspective with scientific evidence. And to me, that is always the best approach. Just look at the facts, let them speak for themselves. And those books had a big impact on me because they shredded the government positions, the Warren Commission and the official government position on the Kennedy assassination.
Dr. Fetzer: Well, I recently did a piece on Bobby and Jack. Their deaths, on Voltairenet.com, which is archived on my web site at Jamesfetzer.blogspot.com where it can be found and traced back to Voltaire, and I encourage anyone who wants a kind of summary overview to take a look there, because in very brief compass I explain the basic elements of both assassinations. It is entitled JFK and RFK, the Plots that Killed Them, the Patsies that Didn't.
Dr. Viken: Yes, I read it Jim, it was excellent. I think you nailed it.
Dr. Fetzer: What do we do about this BP disaster, Jim? Are we just going to have to sit tight and take it. Are we going to have to run the risk of the extinction of the human species on the planet without uttering a whimp?
Dr. Viken: Well, I think we just do the best we can. The people at the top who do these things, it isn't risk free. They are pushing the limits all the time. This could all backfire on them. There is always a possibility that people will rise up and try to take the government back. Who knows. But the bottom line is just love people, do the best you can to try to help people, tell them the truth, and that is it. Take one day at a time, and that is all we can do.
Dr. Fetzer: Well, I am very apprehensive because you get all these reports about the integration of the federal, state, and local level of law enforcement and military training is being given by outfits like what used to be known as Blackwater, and now it is called "Z" to all these enforcement authorities. And it looks as though we have complete militarization of law enforcement in the country, too, Jim.
Dr. Viken: Mike Sparks always says the Nazification process continues.
Dr. Fetzer: It is interesting you mention Mike, because he is going to be my special guest for the second hour, and we are going to talk about General McChrystal and Afghanistan and Obama and all that, Jim.
Dr. Viken: Yes, he is excellent. I love his stuff. But he has always said the Nazis did not end in Germany. That we absorbed them into this country, and they outsmarted us and took over. He thinks there is an ongoing Nazification that went all the way through the Bush administration. It would be interesting for you to find out if he thinks it is still going on with Obama.
Dr. Fetzer: Well it is certainly astonishing, isn't it, Operation Paperclip that brought all these Nazis to America. Scientists, but also others who have not given up their basic principles for the dominance of an elite over the subservient population, and when you talked about serfs and masters, Jim, you are talking the same language.
Dr. Viken: Yes. But Jim, declassified documents showed 9,000 were brought over here under Operation Paperclip.
Dr. Fetzer: 9,000. And given key positions too, I understand, in many cases.
Dr. Viken: That is right.
Dr. Fetzer: That is very scary, Jim, very scary.
Dr. Viken: That is right. That is right.
Dr. Fetzer: Well, my friend, I cannot thank you enough for coming on this show on the first hour with the BP disaster. I think it is extremely frightening and I hope we are wrong about this Jim, but I mean the evidence is all on the side of apprehension and concern.
Dr. Viken: That's right.
Dr. Fetzer: And we are confronting imminent disaster here.
Dr. Viken: Thanks for everything you do, Jim, I appreciate your work.
Dr. Fetzer: My great pleasure. This is Jim Fetzer, your host on the Real Deal, thanking my special guest this first hour, Jim Viken, for coming on to talk about the BP Disaster. Stand by, I will be right back. [57:36].

Second Hour
Mike Sparks Interview

Dr. James Fetzer: [1:02:20] This is Jim Fetzer, with my special guest for the second hour, Mike Sparks. Mike, it is a great pleasure to have you on. You have got all this weird stuff going on in the world, including Obama, Afghanistan, McChrystal. What in the world is going on here?
Mike Sparks: Well it seems like what is happening is some power elites are making some moves and the word is that the BP oil leak is not an accident. To have the president of BP moving his stock before the prices, so it looks like guilty to me all the way on his part. And nobody is questioning him about that. And that shows foreknowledge that something bad was going to happen. Now there are two theories about how that could unfold. One, deliberate sabotage. There are reports a boat pulled up along beside the Deep Horizon offshore drill rig and were doing some fishy things when an explosion took place. And then the other theory is that what they were doing is fundamentally unsound. The place where they are drilling at was was a place where there was a pocket of high pressure oil and gas and it was unsound and unsafe for BP to be drilling there, so the idea is that if you know what you are doing, and you are an experienced, knowledgeable professional, for you to drill there means you know you are going to bank on an accident happening. But it is not an accident, of course. It is like if you go into a room and it is like full of fireworks and you light a match, kind of thing. You know it is going to turn out badly.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes.
Mike Sparks: The whole thing about the oil well thing, you know, pouring out millions of gallons is that the Russians have already had this problem before, and five times they used a small nuclear device and blew the channel closed. I made a video of it, in fact, on my YouTube video channel called "Nuke, Baby, Nuke." But I don't hear anybody talking about it, which means to me that people don't want to solve this problem, not to use nukes. Then I say, well just use explosives, then. You can get the equivalent size explosion, you just have to use more explosives, more work, but the way they are saying it will unfold will not be until mid-August, until the second oil drilling operation well will be dug, and that is another 60 days, we are talking about.
Dr. Fetzer: Well the reports I am getting Mike are that this thing could go on for years and there are as much as a billion barrels of oil there.
Mike Sparks. That is why I say, "Nuke, Baby, Nuke." Call the U.S. military and say "Out of the way, BP, and point a nuclear device adjacent to it, talk to the Russians, find out where you need to place it, set the nuclear device underground, under the seabed, explode the earth adjacent to the oil channel, close it up.
Dr. Fetzer: Well, but Mike I understand the whole seabed is fragmented. The whole Gulf basin is fragile, and that it is leaking from multiple positions, and you cannot any longer stop it. It looks like we have a catastrophe on our hands of unimaginable proportions.
Mike Sparks: Well, right, and I have read some things, especially from the NASA guide, Richard Hoagland saying that there is a gas bubble forming, and all that. And the bottom line is that the President of the United States and the National Security Council have to take charge of this situation. These people who caused the problem, BP are in way over their head. And the national heavyweights have to be put in.
Dr. Fetzer: Mike, we spent the last hour on BP and the Gulf of Mexico disaster with Jim Viken, and I just want to know your take on what is going on with Afghanistan, Obama, and McChrystal. That really stuns me in so many ways. I read his article in Rolling Stone. I personally did not think it was all that bad. I mean certainly there was some contempt being shown for the civilian leaders of the government, but that doesn't mean that, you know, what McChrystal represents is therefore wrong. It may be wrong, but it is not because he is showing some contempt for his civilian superiors.
Mike Sparks: Well, from what I have read so far...[end of this transcript, which is focused on the BP Catastrophe].